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Invite - Ban the Wrangler on Ashvile
#61
(01-16-2020, 08:46 PM)Arzt Hispanian Wrote: If you can make the entire area be able to open the shutter I think that would be enough

upvote
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#62
(01-16-2020, 08:46 PM)Arzt Hispanian Wrote: If you can make the entire area be able to open the shutter I think that would be enough

pretty easy change. Here's what it looks like implemented: https://imgur.com/a/GOTZjDa

Personally, I think this is something that would be easier for a less experienced player to grasp as opposed to a random nobuild. One thing that concerns me with this (having not tested it at all and just going off of conjecture) is that a sniper would be able to peek this easily and be a bit more difficult to spam because they are much deeper into the shutter. Additionally, it may actually not deter engineers from the wrangler/mini in shutter, though it could require more teamwork. An engineer could wrangle onto the point from bats/ramp area while someone else is holding the door open in a relatively safe spot because they can just tap the trigger zone pretty far back, though this does limit their repairing capacity. A wrangled mini can also be pushed super far back and hard to spam, but without the shutter cover I think this is still a significant nerf. not sure which solution is better to be honest though

here's a download link for the map with the entire area behind the shutter acting as an open trigger: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wh3evmoybv9uz...a.bsp?dl=0

Again, let me know if there's any errors in function of the shutter detection or if there's any texture bugs. pug / scrim testing appreciated to see if this is a viable solution
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#63
(01-17-2020, 02:00 AM)rj Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 08:46 PM)Arzt Hispanian Wrote: If you can make the entire area be able to open the shutter I think that would be enough

pretty easy change. Here's what it looks like implemented: https://imgur.com/a/GOTZjDa

Personally, I think this is something that would be easier for a less experienced player to grasp as opposed to a random nobuild. One thing that concerns me with this (having not tested it at all and just going off of conjecture) is that a sniper would be able to peek this easily and be a bit more difficult to spam because they are much deeper into the shutter. Additionally, it may actually not deter engineers from the wrangler/mini in shutter, though it could require more teamwork. An engineer could wrangle onto the point from bats/ramp area while someone else is holding the door open in a relatively safe spot because they can just tap the trigger zone pretty far back, though this does limit their repairing capacity. A wrangled mini can also be pushed super far back and hard to spam, but without the shutter cover I think this is still a significant nerf. not sure which solution is better to be honest though

here's a download link for the map with the entire area behind the shutter acting as an open trigger: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wh3evmoybv9uz...a.bsp?dl=0

Again, let me know if there's any errors in function of the shutter detection or if there's any texture bugs. pug / scrim testing appreciated to see if this is a viable solution

Instead of widening the area of the shutter area that opens the shutter, I think it'd be better to just make the shutter area smaller. Leave the trigger zone for opening the shutter the same size, but bring the wall behind the shutter closer to the shutter. The reason I think this would be suitable is it would prevent engies from closing the shutter while wrangling, while also preventing snipers from using the longer trigger zone in order to avoid sticky traps on shutter. Currently, that's one of the biggest obstacles a sniper has to avoid when peaking shutter when his team is holding bats while getting ready to push. Yeah it'd make 1v1s in shutter area more awkward but it would fix the issue of engineers being able to shield their mini on command while wrangling to repair/rebuild it while not introducing a significant nerf to sticky traps on shutter and a buff to pushing from shutter.
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#64
From what I can see from the image rj posted I think I would still be wrangling from shutter. I would just stand in the corner divider with a mini up and stutterstep at the corner. It would limit the angle I could peek while staying safe.
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#65
I'm all for this ruling that buffs scout on ashville as long as we can start discussion on forbidding soldiers from sitting on their side of the map the whole game looking for spies. im thinking we remove highlander house on product, making ashville bats eat up splash (like on jump maps) and putting a kill zone for soldiers only on their own lakeside batts (might be confusing to new players).
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#66
(01-17-2020, 10:24 AM)pajaro Wrote:
(01-17-2020, 02:00 AM)rj Wrote:
(01-16-2020, 08:46 PM)Arzt Hispanian Wrote: If you can make the entire area be able to open the shutter I think that would be enough

pretty easy change. Here's what it looks like implemented: https://imgur.com/a/GOTZjDa

Personally, I think this is something that would be easier for a less experienced player to grasp as opposed to a random nobuild. One thing that concerns me with this (having not tested it at all and just going off of conjecture) is that a sniper would be able to peek this easily and be a bit more difficult to spam because they are much deeper into the shutter. Additionally, it may actually not deter engineers from the wrangler/mini in shutter, though it could require more teamwork. An engineer could wrangle onto the point from bats/ramp area while someone else is holding the door open in a relatively safe spot because they can just tap the trigger zone pretty far back, though this does limit their repairing capacity. A wrangled mini can also be pushed super far back and hard to spam, but without the shutter cover I think this is still a significant nerf. not sure which solution is better to be honest though

here's a download link for the map with the entire area behind the shutter acting as an open trigger: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wh3evmoybv9uz...a.bsp?dl=0

Again, let me know if there's any errors in function of the shutter detection or if there's any texture bugs. pug / scrim testing appreciated to see if this is a viable solution

Instead of widening the area of the shutter area that opens the shutter, I think it'd be better to just make the shutter area smaller. Leave the trigger zone for opening the shutter the same size, but bring the wall behind the shutter closer to the shutter. The reason I think this would be suitable is it would prevent engies from closing the shutter while wrangling, while also preventing snipers from using the longer trigger zone in order to avoid sticky traps on shutter. Currently, that's one of the biggest obstacles a sniper has to avoid when peaking shutter when his team is holding bats while getting ready to push. Yeah it'd make 1v1s in shutter area more awkward but it would fix the issue of engineers being able to shield their mini on command while wrangling to repair/rebuild it while not introducing a significant nerf to sticky traps on shutter and a buff to pushing from shutter.

This would make the area far too small. Here's what the current Ashville trigger looks like (orange box)
[Image: rgO4J1l.png]
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#67
i think what spu was trying to say was make the purple area smaller as well as the orange area bigger
plug walk
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#68
just remove the shutter, if you make it so it opens when you step in that general area it kinda removes all the reason the shutter is even there to begin with. any (effective) sticky trap you set would still be effective even after the modified shutter is gone.
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#69
If you have a problem (engie wrangling from shutter) and want to solve that problem, AND have a solution that will solve that problem without any unintended consequences on other classes (no build zone), is it really worth it to use a different solution that has a bunch of unintended consequences for snipers, which require you to change the map more and potentially have more unintended consequences for other classes -- for the sake of being less confusing?

I'm biased, but imo it's less of a headache to just make it a no build zone -- unless someone really feels like redesigning the whole shutter / middle lobby area.
save me
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#70
(01-18-2020, 02:42 PM)Markers Wrote: If you have a problem (engie wrangling from shutter) and want to solve that problem, AND have a solution that will solve that problem without any unintended consequences on other classes (no build zone), is it really worth it to use a different solution that has a bunch of unintended consequences for snipers, which require you to change the map more and potentially have more unintended consequences for other classes -- for the sake of being less confusing?

I'm biased, but imo it's less of a headache to just make it a no build zone -- unless someone really feels like redesigning the whole shutter / middle lobby area.

this makes sense but it also makes me sad
plug walk
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#71
Just widen the shutter open area. The shutter still needs to be there to prevent having a Sniper stand on point and look into lobby, and the wrangled mini will be as strong once it's already up, but it'll prevent getting a mini up in clutch moments when everyone's hurt and can't worry about keeping an eye on shutter.
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#72
(01-18-2020, 02:42 PM)Markers Wrote: If you have a problem (engie wrangling from shutter) and want to solve that problem, AND have a solution that will solve that problem without any unintended consequences on other classes (no build zone), is it really worth it to use a different solution that has a bunch of unintended consequences for snipers, which require you to change the map more and potentially have more unintended consequences for other classes -- for the sake of being less confusing?

I'm biased, but imo it's less of a headache to just make it a no build zone -- unless someone really feels like redesigning the whole shutter / middle lobby area.

My issue is that I think the whole "Engineer is wrangling from shutter" issue is being blown way out of proportion. the only time its ever broken is during pre and post ubers for denying space or cleaning up damage. A wrangled mini in any situation will not win you games or fights, it just helps cement those victories. I just think you are all being silly about a normally low impact useless class having some form of play that is actually useful.
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#73
the wrangler is bad lol
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