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Rankings should be win based
#21
(02-14-2019, 08:22 PM)Alto Wrote: ????????? do you even know what a strawman is?

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

source(s): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.


literally no one said "thats the way we always did it lol"

if a team wins, then they win. a win is a win, which is the argument both me and nyxi brought up. on the day of the match, when the match mattered, the team that wins is better. thats why FF should be higher in the seed (using FF as an example, since spu made the thread and i think its a good example of the W/L not really mattering in seed). yes, match points matter, which is why IN MY ORIGINAL POST i said that they should be the tiebreaker between teams with the same record. but you should play to win. if you cant win your match, that sucks and at least you get some match points. otherwise who cares who wins. what is the point of playing for competition if it doesnt matter who wins, as long as both teams get a good amount of match points (such as winning 4-3 on koth). it barely gives you any sort of advantage, unless it really comes down to the wire (which, in invite it may because there were literally 5 matches). but in every other div, winning practically means nothing as long as you get good match points. that wouldnt be an awful system, if losing pl 2-0 didnt fucking gut your entire team. that's no match points for a full week of playing. its easier to win 2-0 on pl than 4-0 on koth. this system just means losing 2-0 on 2 payload maps basically fucks over your team.
plug walk
#22
(02-14-2019, 08:29 PM)cloud Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 08:22 PM)Alto Wrote: ????????? do you even know what a strawman is?

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

source(s): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.


literally no one said "thats the way we always did it lol"

if a team wins, then they win. a win is a win, which is the argument both me and nyxi brought up. on the day of the match, when the match mattered, the team that wins is better. thats why FF should be higher in the seed (using FF as an example, since spu made the thread and i think its a good example of the W/L not really mattering in seed). yes, match points matter, which is why IN MY ORIGINAL POST i said that they should be the tiebreaker between teams with the same record. but you should play to win. if you cant win your match, that sucks and at least you get some match points. otherwise who cares who wins. what is the point of playing for competition if it doesnt matter who wins, as long as both teams get a good amount of match points (such as winning 4-3 on koth). it barely gives you any sort of advantage, unless it really comes down to the wire (which, in invite it may because there were literally 5 matches). but in every other div, winning practically means nothing as long as you get good match points. that wouldnt be an awful system, if losing pl 2-0 didnt fucking gut your entire team. that's no match points for a full week of playing. its easier to win 2-0 on pl than 4-0 on koth. this system just means losing 2-0 on 2 payload maps basically fucks over your team.

please then enlighten me as to what your purpose was in listing the people who agreed with you. you mean to tell me that you were just tallying up thoughts as a neutral observer for the benefit of the reader? take my upvote, thoughtful redditor! sure saved me the effort of reading the rest of this thread so I can also comment my opinion Smile

Why is a win a win? the regular season exists in service of seeding playoffs, something spu agrees with me on. Playoff seeding should be determined by who had the best season (and therefore will have a better chance at winning in playoffs), and in my eyes saying that the 1 round >> managed to take against empire somehow invalidates the round >> lost to flow, the round empire took against rewind, and the 3 rounds >> lost to space force is absolutely fucked and not respecting of the effort that Empire put in to have clean wins and close[r] losses. Winning dominantly is an act that should have a reward in and of itself; being able to control the factors (especially in koth maps) that could potentially lead to dropping a round is an admirable skill that speaks volumes about a team's ability. If >> isn't able to play clean enough to prevent space force and the flow from taking rounds off of them, why should that be rewarded?

I don't want to sound too much like Karl, but winning regular season games really doesn't mean all that much. It's an arbitrary determinant of who took more rounds in a given set, on a given map. Winning playoff games, where elimination is on the line and you likely went through a map pick/ban, is where winning matches actually matters.

Additionally, I agree that the implementation of the current system in regards to how much MP the winners lose is too much. That being said, I still think prioritizing regular season wins is stupid and can overly punish a team for having one bad game despite having multiple stronger weeks (something that you'd see even more in a longer season).
#23
(02-14-2019, 08:50 PM)Alto Wrote: please then enlighten me as to what your purpose was in listing the people who agreed with you. you mean to tell me that you were just tallying up thoughts as a neutral observer for the benefit of the reader? take my upvote, thoughtful redditor! sure saved me the effort of reading the rest of this thread so I can also comment my opinion Smile

why list it?
i think its interesting to see how a large majority of the population wants this

you also immediately sound like karl despite saying you dont want to sound like him

there is no point in regular season. as long as you get to playoffs, and your team begins trying, then you will win.
this is a very healthy look at competition
plug walk
#24
(02-14-2019, 08:59 PM)cloud Wrote: why list it?
i think its interesting to see how a large majority of the population wants this

there is no point in regular season. as long as you get to playoffs, and your team begins trying, then you will win.
this is a very healthy look at competition

ah yes 'interesting'
i too find it very 'interesting' that you're trying to cover up an extremely apparent bandwagon argument with this awful facetiousness


(02-14-2019, 08:59 PM)cloud Wrote: there is no point in regular season. as long as you get to playoffs, and your team begins trying, then you will win.
this is a very healthy look at competition

wow its almost like a team not playing at 100% in the regular season and dropping rounds to teams they don't have any business dropping rounds to should get punished for dropping those rounds!

if >> is a better team than empire why couldn't they take any rounds off rewind?
if >> is a better team than empire why couldn't they hold space force roundless?
if >> is a better team than empire why couldn't they hold the flow of all teams roundless????
#25
It just doesnt make sense to my brain that my team has to fight an uphill battle in playoffs for even a CHANCE at 3rd (despite having more wins than half the teams in the other bracket right?), because we didnt roll every round we played vs the teams we won against. But w/e man im bad at arguing. As long as the admins understand the system, currently, is shit for teams like mine and a couple of other teams - Im happy
#26
Closing this. Exa and I have already discussed how we planned on proceeding during the offseason before this thread popped up. No changes will be made this season but expect changes to be announced soon after.


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